bunn: (Logres)
[personal profile] bunn
I've been watching the BBC's Merlin on and off, mostly on the grounds that it is Arthuriana and quite pretty.   The plots and characterisation seemed to get in a bit of a tangle from time to time, and sometimes you could only conclude that Monty Python was right about Camelot being a very silly place, but on the whole I enjoyed it.  


I enjoyed the final two episodes too, although I am vaguely aware that lots of people didn't.   It was nice to see Merlin finally doing some serious magic and coming out as a sorcerer, and also, hurray!  Some Saxons have finally turned up.  I'd been wondering if the whole Saxon side of the story had been dispensed with.  I was disappointed to see that the Merlin Saxons weren't colour-coded with huge fluffy sheepskin vests, like Arthur of the Britons Saxons though.  Actually, possibly that suggests one thing that would have improved Merlin as faintly-cheesy Arthuriana.  It was very jolly, but it contained no Brian Blessed, and although Merlin's Percival's enormous arms were probably comparable to Brian's as Mark of Cornwall, there was no comparable bellowing.  

I did wonder what exactly Morgana had done to win the everlasting devotion of the Saxons so that they were so willing to send an army at her call. Possibly I missed that, but my guess would be that these particular Saxons are just really into invading... everything. I am not even sure if any of them got names.  England, founded by an army of nameless henchmen!  There's a heritage to echo down the centuries.

The last episode of all was an extended  two-day post-Camlann death scene, with Merlin playing the Bedivere role.   This might have seemed a rather gloomy way to end if it were not, well, post-Camlann Arthuriana, and therefore never likely to be a bundle of laughs.   At long last Arthur found out that Merlin had been stage-managing his entire career with illegal magic.  He coped with the revelation surprisingly well, considering, and the whole 'you killed my father : prepare to die!' thing never came up at all, although possibly that was because of the 'dying of a splinter from an unearthly blade that is working inwards' aspect (where have I heard that one before...?)

Seeing Merlin as a sorcerer who actually sorcels full time, rather than a servant who sorcels furtively on the side, made me realise why the series has hung on so desperately to the idea that Merlin's magic must be a big secret, to the point where it was hard for the viewer to understand quite why nobody (particularly Arthur) had worked it out yet.      As soon as Merlin turned up and started hurling lighting bolts, the entire Camelot army was suddenly rendered obsolete by superior technology.  It made me wonder how they would have written a Merlin is revealed as a sorcerer plot earlier in the series - compared with Arthur, Merlin is shown as cleverer, mostly better informed, and with a better understanding of ordinary people, so you kind of wonder what there would have been left for Arthur to do, other than hang about looking regal and securing the succession.  Although I suppose that is essentially much of the role of the British monarchy today.

I really liked the final little scene with an old, present-day Merlin walking past Glastonbury Tor (where he had left Arthur many centuries/one scene previously).  It suggested all sorts of intriguing ideas for a Once and Future King return, without promising anything too definite.  Although of course, you could see that Glastonbury Tor is no longer an island, raising the old questions about whether they found the Lady in the Lake when the  drainage work was done, whether she was annoyed about being drained out of a home, etc
etc.  And in this particular case, whether the Sidhe are still living there, and if so whether they are now running some sort of New Age teashop full of dreamcatchers and incense holders.

Oh, one final thing - was the 'Guinevere crowned as queen music' the same music that Aragorn gets crowned to in Return of the King? Is that official TV Coronation Music now? It sounded very similar!

Date: 2012-12-29 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carmarthen.livejournal.com
This is the first thing I've ever read that almost makes me want to watch the show.

Although I think I'd rather read the story about Sidhe running New Age shops, snickering at the humans all the while...

Why did people hate the finale? I've seen discontent, but no specifics.

Date: 2012-12-29 11:50 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Logres)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
I suspect you'd hate the costumes, they were very cod-medieval.. (in Merlin, not of the Sidhe. The Sidhe probably wear Fair Trade woolly jumpers in rainbow shades, with jeans to run their ironic New Age shops, I'm thinking).

I haven't done any very comprehensive survey, but I think there was a feeling that as it was Prophesied that Arthur would bring in a golden age where magic was legal, that should have happened (preferably Happily Ever After with Merlin), rather than just leaving a vague impression that magic would be legalised by Guinevere after his death.

There were quite a lot of loose ends that weren't really tied up much too, although I get the impression that which ends people think are particularly loose varies quite a lot depending on which of the characters they were most interested in. Oh, and they killed off Gwaine (I don't know what happened to his A) who was one of the prettier knights, in a bit of a minor subplot - I'm sure that annoyed some people.

Date: 2012-12-30 06:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carmarthen.livejournal.com
I do not watch shows like Merlin for the costumes (someday I will finish BBC Robin Hood, which I also did not watch for the costumes, but more for the lolz). But I bounced off Merlin so hard I can't remember a thing about the episodes I did watch.

The Sidhe probably wear Fair Trade woolly jumpers in rainbow shades, with jeans to run their ironic New Age shops, I'm thinking

This sounds amazing.

I think I would be unhappy with any Arthurian adaptation that goes up to Camlann and then ends in Happily Ever After. I mean, I was okay with the ridiculous King Arthur movie because it tried (goofily) to historicize, so why not let Arthur and Gwen have a HEA? But if you keep the mythic elements, I feel like the tragedy is kind of inherent.

Date: 2012-12-30 09:29 am (UTC)
ext_189645: (Logres)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
I was pleased they didn't give it a happy ending for the same reasons, but then, I'm familiar with too many different takes on the story to not expect that ending...

It's rather lovely that many people fell so hard for this version of the legend that they are heartbroken by the tragedy. Camlann *should* leave the audience heartbroken for the opportunities lost: they *should* feel like something important has been broken, I think. Suggests the writers were doing something right that they got that reaction.

Date: 2012-12-30 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carmarthen.livejournal.com
I think for me, also--and I don't ship Arthur/Merlin as presented in the show--the glory of Camelot is largely on the surface. It's prosperous and peaceful and probably pretty okay for the average person, but the people holding it together so often have shitty personal lives. They have affairs, they can't be with the person they love, they're guilt-ridden about sleeping with their sister, they hate their father, they hate their mother, they're bad parents.... Underneath it, there's all this infidelity and emotional pain, in the mythic versions.

I was writing my own version of Merlin/Arthur long before the show, but it was still infidelity and Guen was sleeping with Bedwyr, and Merlin ended up with his eyes cut out nailed to a tree, so. IDK. I guess I mostly like my Arthuriana filled with grinding misery? More leeway if you historify it, at least on the personal level, but he didn't exactly hold back the Saxon tide for long.
ext_189645: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
Exactly! The great thing about Arthur for me is not that he succeeded or was a great king, as such - but that he and the people around him were flawed and they tried so hard anyway, and still failed.

Heroic failure : absolutely one of my weaknesses!

Ouch, poor Merlin nailed to a tree! Based on anything in particular?

Date: 2012-12-30 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carmarthen.livejournal.com
Yes, that! The poem Sutcliff has at the beginning of SAS perfectly encapsulates what I love about Arthuriana.

The story was originally inspired by Kathy Mar's "Merlin," a wondrously creepy song you can download here: http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/virtual.html

In retrospect, I think what I was doing with Gwen was problematic, so if I ever revisit I will have to seriously rethink.

Date: 2012-12-30 10:19 am (UTC)
sally_maria: (Arthur - Nothing Useful)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
I can't speak for everybody, but [livejournal.com profile] bunn's fairly accurately reflecting what I hated about the final season in general - we were promised a Golden Age where magic would return, Arthur would become king of all Albion, not just Camelot, and (by implication) Merlin would get the public respect for everything he'd done to protect Arthur/the kingdom. (Yes, I love Merlin/Arthur, but I wasn't expecting it to become canon.)

In our ideal version of the story, there would have been a reveal of Merlin's magic at least two seasons ago, then the Round Table would have been formed and the kingdom built, with Merlin and Arthur openly working together to make it happen, as was prophesied back in the early part of season one.

It had been increasingly obvious that that wasn't what we were going to be getting, and certainly by this season, when many years had passed off screen and they were already talking about Camlann, without ever had the glory in the first place, I could see it was never going to happen, which is why I gave up watching at the beginning of this season.

In my experience the vast majority of Merlin fans I know actually loved the final episode - to the extent that I got several people telling me to watch it within minutes of asking. By that point, the tragic ending was inevitable, but we did finally get the vindication for Merlin, and Merlin and Arthur's relationship, that we'd been wanting for up to 5 years.

It wasn't the tragedy that bothered me, it was that we never actually got to see High King Arthur, the noble king of Albion, and his trusted friend and advisor Merlin, working together to save the kingdom from outside threats. The original Arthurian story ended in tragedy eventually, yes, but at least Arthur got to be king, and successful and glorious first.

Date: 2012-12-30 02:04 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
I was just going on a quick survey of facebook and twitter, where people who probably aren't fans to the point of writing their own takes on it seemed to be voicing a certain discontent...

Date: 2012-12-30 02:15 pm (UTC)
sally_maria: (Merlin - Unexpected)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
Ah, yes, that would be a slightly different take on it, and I can imagine that the ending might have taken more casual viewers, particularly those who weren't familiar with the end of the legend, by surprise. As I think I said somewhere, it's entirely possible that the writers always did intend the show to be a tragedy, demonstrating the problems with self-fulfilling prophecies, but that really wasn't how it came over most of the time.

Date: 2012-12-30 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carmarthen.livejournal.com
The original Arthurian story ended in tragedy eventually, yes, but at least Arthur got to be king, and successful and glorious first.

Fair enough. It does seem a little odd to skip over that.

Date: 2012-12-29 10:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alitheapipkin.livejournal.com
I rather enjoyed it. I found the way they have failed to write Guen this series much more irritating than the ending.

I always thought Arthur's function was mainly to prettify things. Which is good, because although I like the young lad who plays him, I'm not convinced he's much of an actor...

Date: 2012-12-30 12:02 am (UTC)
ext_189645: (Logres)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
Ooh, so harsh! He did a nice line in surprise, shading to alarm, shading to ouch-i-am-dying-oh-well in the last episode. :-D

They didn't seem to know quite what to do with Guinevere a lot of the time, but I thought it was quite nice that she did get to be queen in her own right.

Date: 2012-12-30 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ningloreth.livejournal.com
Colin Morgan is always excellent, but I thought Bradley James did a pretty good job of showing the range of Arthur's emotions in the final episode.

...compared with Arthur, Merlin is shown as cleverer, mostly better informed, and with a better understanding of ordinary people, so you kind of wonder what there would have been left for Arthur to do...

The writers of the original Star Trek solved a similar problem -- Spock's being so much more competent than Kirk -- by putting them in situations where only Kirk's good ol' American values could save the day. But that approach wouldn't be credible these days! I did like the way Merlin kept forgetting that he could use his magic openly, and Arthur had to remind him.

...plots ... seemed to get in a bit of a tangle from time to time...

The 'updating' of the various strands of the legend always seemed a bit random to me.

From reading the various discussions, I think a lot of the disappointment came from slash fans, who wanted a happily ever after and either didn't already know how the legend ended or hoped it would be changed (and didn't understand the concept of a 'once and future king'), so felt cheated.

I agree it was nice seeing an aged Merlin in the present, still waiting for Arthur to come back. And I loved how the lorry flashed past him.

Date: 2012-12-30 09:38 am (UTC)
ext_189645: (Logres)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
I think if they'd made Merlin a bit different, they could have got away with having him be very powerful - if he had struggled with politics, or been more innately tactless, they could have built up to a Camelot where Arthur and Guinevere did the politics.

But given where they had got to by the start of the fifth series, I can see why they would want to stick with Merlin being secret as long as they could.

Date: 2012-12-30 10:31 am (UTC)
sally_maria: (Arthur - Expected)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
I can't speak for all Merlin/Arthur fans, but for most of the people I know it wasn't the tragic ending that we felt cheated by, but the lack of the prophesied Golden age, the return of magic to the kingdom, and the public acknowledgement of Merlin and his destined position as Arthur's trusted advisor.

It could have ended then, without actually changing the end of the legend, just leaving it as a potential threat for the future, or we could have had the tragedy, but, as in the original, *after* Arthur and Merlin had become the glorious figures of legend we were waiting for.

(I not sure how 'once and future' king is actually incompatible with Arthur dying peacefully in his bed at an advanced age, though it's not the lack of that I felt cheated by.)

Date: 2012-12-30 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ningloreth.livejournal.com
Golden Age...

But couldn't that happen in the future?

Date: 2012-12-30 01:46 pm (UTC)
sally_maria: (Merlin Thinky)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
Yes, indeed it could, and I'm expecting dozens of fix-it stories to just that effect. But unless there's going to be another (surprise) season of the show, it's not going to happen on-screen, it's not going to be part of the show itself, and I'm afraid I'm still going to feel cheated of it. :-(

(Besides, Merlin looked like he was in the current modern day world - a royal Golden Age, with magic in the kingdom, now? I'm sure a good writer could make me believe it, but TPTB haven't exactly made it easy for them.)

Date: 2012-12-30 02:38 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Logres)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
Wipe out the modern world!

Not just "the old Heaven and the old Earth patched up to seem a little more secure. A few gained years in which men may sow their fields in reasonable hope of reaping the harvest", but the new heaven and the new earth at long last...

(Oh, Artos the Bear, you will always be my number 1 King Arthur, of all the Arthurs!)

Date: 2012-12-30 03:24 pm (UTC)
sally_maria: (Merlin Arthur Cartoon)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
Yes, I think that might be the solution, from a story-telling point of view.

It still feels like a cheat, though - why was this Arthur so special? why does he get to be king again, when there were many others who did the same or more? The greatest king ever returning in the time of his country's greatest need is one thing, but in this case it seems rather random.

Oddly enough, I think this Arthur, or at least the fandom version of him, might be my Arthur, whereas my Merlin is definitely Mary Stewart's.

why does he get to be king again

Date: 2012-12-30 06:13 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
Well, that is the great question isn't it? Why Arthur? Why not Vortigern or Urien Rheged or Uther?

And there I think is the centre of it: Arthur didn't succeed. Arthur tried, and failed, but still Arthur dreamed big, and that's why he is remembered, even if we've forgotten just what the dreams were... Which I suppose is why the series more or less (OK, it was very silly in places!) worked for me : I don't tend to think of glorious peace as an aspect of Arthuriana....

The other historical character who has similar resonance (for me) is Owain Glyn Dwr, and he too failed, and there are similar 'lies waiting in the hills until his people need him' legends around him too.

Re: why does he get to be king again

Date: 2012-12-30 07:17 pm (UTC)
sally_maria: (Arthur Pendragon)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
Ah, and I think that's the big difference, that we've impressed on different parts or versions of the story.

To me, the fundamental Arthurian kingdom (the legendary one, as opposed to the more historical takes such as Sword at Sunset or the Crystal Cave) is one where he rules in peace, and his knights gallop around the countryside on quests rescuing fair maidens from evil enchanters, monsters and other knights under curses. Arthur may have already created the seeds of his own destruction, but he also sets an example of the perfect king, which is why we want him back. ;-)

Date: 2012-12-30 10:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lindahoyland.livejournal.com
The end infuriated me as the whole premise of the series seemed to be about Merlin and Arthur establishing Albion and his great destiny. It would have worked it Arthur's death had been 20-30 years into the future as legend says he had a long glorious reign before Mordred killed him.

Date: 2012-12-30 10:34 am (UTC)
sally_maria: (Merlin Fight and Defend)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
Yes, exactly.

That's what bothered me the most about the way the story was portrayed, not just in the last episode, but for the last couple of seasons.

Date: 2012-12-30 11:00 am (UTC)
sally_maria: (Arthur - Vital to Plot)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
I'm glad you enjoyed the last couple of episodes - as I said elsewhere, when I was tl;dr-ing all over your comments, all of the Merlin fans I know loved the last episode as it was, even though there's still a lot of random crying going on. It was the longer sweep of the story we objected to.

I know what you mean about Merlin being over-powered - I have seen various fanfics tackling that over the years, but most of them were premised on the idea that Morgana wasn't the only other sorcerer in Albion, and that an Arthur who knew about Merlin's magic wouldn't want him to commit mass murder on his behalf (noble king and all that) so would make his battle plans accordingly. As I see it a large part of the problem is the lack of/inconsistent character growth that Arthur was given - going from spoilt brat with Daddy issues to noble king would have been a great progression, but he never seemed to quite get there. Possibly a modern problem with seeing a king as being an unreservedly good thing? I don't know.

It's no doubt a sad reflection on me as a Tolkien fan, but I'm afraid my first thought was Tony Stark and his shrapnel, rather than Frodo and the Morgul blade. Unfortunately, however powerful a sorcerer, Merlin doesn't seem to be good with arc reactors. :-)

That last scene was very popular - witness the couple of dozen stories continuing it on AO3 already, and a lot of people who've been writing re-incarnation stories over the years feeling vindicated. My head-canon is that Arthur is just about to get out of the lorry, but who knows...

Date: 2012-12-30 02:25 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
I think it's partly that Arthur didn't really seem to grow into a great king, but also that they set up Merlin early to be so amazing that it's difficult to come up with any convincing form of opposition:

Hengist: "So, Horsa, you are telling me this king Arthur has got a sorcerer that is the greatest ever to live?"
Horsa: "Yup"
Hengist: " And he's also the last Dragonlord?"
Horsa: "Yup"
Hengist:"And he's totally loyal to this king Arthur? We don't have a hope of getting him to fall for some gorgeous Saxon lady and coming over to our side?"
Horsa: "Yup"
Hengist: " And the druids are scared of his very name?"
Horsa: "Yup"
Hengist : "Fuck this for a game of soldiers, anyone fancy invading Gaul?"
Horsa: "Yup!"

It's not just that he's overpowered though, he's cleverer than Arthur, and nicer than Arthur, and less arrogant... If they wanted to do a magic reveal earlier, I think really they needed to set him up with more weaknesses or he is just too shiny to be true, somehow.

In my head, apocalyptic John Wyndham style End of the World type stuff is about to put an end to all the lorries, and Merlin is on his way to get Arthur to help deal with that somehow. But I am not sure of the details!

Date: 2012-12-30 03:58 pm (UTC)
sally_maria: (Arthur - BW)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
Yes, I can definitely see what you mean.

I can't help thinking though that as he was originally conceived he was a little too nice for politics, with no idea of warfare or sense of strategy - sure he could knock a few bad guys out, but he needed others, the Dragon, Gaius to tell him what needed to be done. The Arthur I was expecting this one to grow into had the political training, and the ability as a warrior and a general to be a worthy king, and to make best use of Merlin's abilities. If that was to scare off his enemies and make them become allies out of fear of Merlin, that would work, at least until you had treachery from within like Mordred. And after all, Merlin was only one man, however powerful, he couldn't have been everywhere - Arthur would have had something to offer other than just being a pretty face. ;-)

It's all speculation, I'm well aware. It's over, and from my point of view as someone who was invested in Merlin and Arthur's relationship the ending could have been a lot worse. I'm afraid I'm welcoming the chance to discuss it with someone that isn't just us crying on each others' shoulders, though there's been plenty of that.

Date: 2012-12-30 05:16 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
Merlin was very young then though - I think maybe they didn't leave him space to grow into that wasn't the space that Arthur needed to develop.

Of course, what this alternative version with a political/military Arthur and a slightly-naive but powerful Merlin needs is a really serious and convincing enemy. I favour Rowena on a big white Saxon dragon leading an army of 7-foot Saxons armed with seaxes. (Aithusa really never lived up to his promise, I thought, and Kilgharrah was quite simply *the wrong colour*)

Date: 2012-12-30 06:24 pm (UTC)
sally_maria: (BabySlashDragon)
From: [personal profile] sally_maria
I would have loved that - quite apart from the character assassination issues, Morgana really wasn't a good enough villain to sustain 3 series, imo, and in any case, constantly resurrecting villains are fine for comic books and Doctor Who, but they don't really work in something like Merlin.

I'd really like to know where the writers thought they were going with Aithusa - he was supposed to be a good omen for the kingdom that Merlin and Arthur were going to build together, and then he randomly started working for Morgana... A white Saxon dragon would have been fine - as it was it just created confusion.

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