Poughkeepsie

[bunn]

I was reminded of 'From Elfland to Poughkeepsie', an essay by Le Guin about writing fantasy (it's in The Language of the Night, and I've just checked, there is a version of it online if you google).  This made me ramble.  I assume, from context, that Poughkeepsie (I have deliberately not looked it up) is a very dull and prosaic place in the USA.   But for me, it's a place that I have only ever  come across, so far as I am aware, in the context of that one essay. 

Poughkeepsie: 
weird looking sort of name, no idea what it means
Quite long, not sure how to pronounce it
Looks a bit Scottish maybe, with that 'sie' on the end?
Associations: Elfland. have vague idea it's in Virginia, which name I associate with Elizabeth I and dashing explorers in ruffs.  (Edit: apparently this is incorrect. Oh well, all the best legends are vague on geography)

Elfland:
Name that I've grown up with in many different contexts
has an obvious meaning
easy to pronounce
Associations: Hollow Hills, hill forts, misfortune, 'elf arrows', Tolkien,  Kipling and the Dymchurch Flit, Tam lin, as many traditional stories as you can shake a stick at.

From where I'm standing, one of those names has strange 'other' associations, and I'm not sure it's Elfland...

I wonder if there is a British equivalent of Poughkeepsie.  Slough, maybe?  Except Slough always reminds me of the Slough of Despond in John Bunyan, which is *very* fantasy.  Swindon has the Magic Roundabout.   Leicester?  Leicestershire (home of the King Edward potato!) is *awfully* prosaic, but it is hiding a Roman caester in it's name, which is suggests hidden depths.

I suppose when you are trying to make things sound strange and other, it's always going to matter where you are standing at the time.  Hence, presumably, the hilarious-in-Britain 'High Lord Kevin' and of course poor Jack Vance's memorable 'Servants of the Wankh' which *still* makes me smile.  High Lord Kevin indeed.

Comments

[adaese.livejournal.com]

Bunn, did you know your account has just been hacked by Lady of Astolat?

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I am really not sure how to react to this comment... :-)

[bunn.livejournal.com]

Nor me!

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

I think adaese thought that the wit and style was more in ladyofastolat's line than in yours, as you have your own, somewhat different version of these.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

I think adaese thought that the wit and style was more in your line than in bunn's.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Leicester may be the oldest lace-name in the country, with a Phoenician element.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

And, as everyone knows, the Phoenicians are cousins of the fairies. :-P

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

Of course they are! ;-)

[king-pellinor.livejournal.com]

I really do have to ask: what on earth is Phoenician lace doing in Leicester?

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

This is a long and complicated story. The best theory is that the Phoenicians used lace to wrap their phoenix eggs in when transporting them long distances.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

There was a Friends episode called The One With The Girl From Poughkeepsie, though I can't remember anything about it. I'm now wondering if the girl was actually a fairy intent on enchanting whatever main character tangled with her.

I always think of Basingstoke as the epitome of ordinariness, though I've never actually been there. Gilbert and Sullivan take the blame for this one.

[puddleshark.livejournal.com]

I was going to suggest Basingstoke too, but then I remembered the siege of Basing House.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

I think that Basingstoke loses any credit that Basing House might have given it by putting up great big "Welcome to Basingstoke: home of Winterthur Life Insurance" signs at the railway station. If that's the only thing a town can think of the boast about, then it's really in trouble. (Or else trying to distract attention from the fact that it's really a mystical portal to fairyland.)

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

I used to work for Colonial Life, which was taken over by Winterthur Life. Then I worked for AXA, which had taken over Winterthur Life.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

I thought you'd never been to Basingstoke???

I've never been there either, but Wikipedia suggests that it is the 'outlying, western settlement of Basa's people'.

It certainly has a Poughkeepsie-like reputation.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

Many a time have I been on a train that has passed through Basingstoke, but it has never emitted a siren call sufficiently strong for me to disembark and explore its wonders.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

I suppose the other question is, are there places in the world where the name Basingstoke sounds strange and exotic? I guess there must be.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I'm reminded of the Space 1999 episode where an alien world is called Luton, on the grounds that producer Fred Freiberger saw the name while driving on the M1 and thought it seemed implacably otherworldly.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

Thinking on, growing up in South Wales, Merthyr Tydfil 'armpit of the universe' was our local Poughkeepsie. I bet there are people who think Merthyr sounds impossibly romantic.

OMG. People now go on holiday to Merthyr. It is a Destination, rather than a desperate little town inhabited by desperation and despair. http://www.visitmerthyr.co.uk/

Coo. How times change.

[ladyofastolat.livejournal.com]

To be fair, that only proves that Merthyr Tydfil wants people to visit it, not that they actually do. Although it does seem to be a town that's rising rapidly in the world. According to Wikipedia, between 2006 and 2007 it went from being the third worst place to live in Britain to only being the fifth worst.

Why is the armpit of the universe worse than anything else? I can think of worse places. The nostril of the universe, perhaps, or its bum crack.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

It at least suggests some commitment to the idea that tourists could come and go without being robbed, burnt or eaten...

Nostril wouldn't be too bad. At least there would be a view, and a breeze. Bum crack - I see your point.

[marycatelli]

It's in New York. Upstate New York. I lived there for nearly five years while I was working for IBM. Pronouce it Poa - kip - see. Native language name.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

That doesn't make it sound any the less exotic!

My mental vision of upstate New York is a vague melange of woodlands and canoes.

If I had any reason to, of course I could research the place, but maybe I shall restrain myself, in the interests of retaining a sense of wonder. Or at least, I could probably research Poughkeepsie. I did try to research Sheikh Ibada, in mid-Egypt, a while ago, and found that there are still many places that are beyond the reach of google...

[fred-god-of.livejournal.com]

Upstate New York is a vague Melange of Woodlands and Canoes and Bears! I live there, Poughkeepsie is where you get the affordable train down to the City (There is no other City for upstate NY, but for clarity I mean New York City) So actually you're right, it is a magical portal to another world. It's the transport point between terrifying Bear Land and Broadway

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

I never knew how to pronounce it before. Thanks!

[sistermine.livejournal.com]

Yes, so much about names sounding ordinary is our familiarity with them.

We often go to north wales, and struggle with the place names and all their consonants; conversely we often forget the things we know because we've heard them so often. It's only hearing my children pronounce words and placenames wrongly that reminds me that England/English has a lot of history embedded in it.

[bunn.livejournal.com]

I remember when my family moved from South Wales to Devon, being weirded out by the fact that suddenly lots of the names were in English!

[sistermine.livejournal.com]

Must have been odd!