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"bleh! What have you done to the beautiful dialect of the smilarilion? You've trashed it and made it modern! That is a travesty, and no true fan of tolkein would do this. I reject this work."
-- an unregistered user on archiveofourown

I love this comment so much that I am seriously considering getting it printed on a t-shirt.  I keep reading it again and it makes me fall over laughing again.

Date: 2017-10-25 09:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] r-blackcat.livejournal.com
Well, I think "high" and "noble" could be used with a different... not meaning perhaps, just... a flavour? a feeling? I believe it was a problem from the first day the word "noble" was used - what does it means? A 'noble" birth + education, manners, language etc? Or good deeds? Or a manner in which a good deed is done? Too difficult a theme for not native language, I don't hope to explain my feelings of the word, let alone prove it.
As for "princely" - there, I think, we understand the word differently (and yes, I realize I'm not a native). I understand it (maybe wrongly) "like a prince would do". Then Legolas's anger was definitely absolutely "princely" for me, it was Gimli who acted in non-princely, easy and simple way. Well, Gimli is not a prince, eh? :) I must tell, their conflict there doesn't look for me like something speaking bad things about them. Their prejudice against each other was very much due to history and politics and faults of others, I can't see any possibility for them acting in another way. On the contrary, the fact that they were able to overcome their prejudices speaks very high and noble of them both. (OK, with a little help from Aragorn not letting them to strangle each other on the way :) ) Oh, and Legolas is not a leader here, I mean literary, he's not a leader of the Fellowship. I think it's very "princely" and very un-noble (means bad) for any leader (prince, general, boss) to act as a leader in circumstances where he IS NOT a leader, towards people who don't own any loyalty to him. You know, the fact that Legolas had accepted the leadership of Aragorn speaks very good of him. It might be not easy for him - a prince, and raised in a court which, I suppose, didn't hold humans in high esteem.
And dance on a snow ever seemed to me something Finrod could have done. But Finrod could have allowed himself such thing because he is strong, free and calm, and Legolas... well, we don't know what life he has in Mirkwood. Maybe he was glad not to be a prince for once and loosen himself a bit.

I wonder what LJ will do if we continue to comment on and on. :) The space for comment become narrower and narrower...

Date: 2017-10-27 07:54 pm (UTC)
ext_189645: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bunn.livejournal.com
I don't know what LJ will do. I did wonder about replying to one of your earlier comments to make more space, but curiosity overwhelmed me. :-D

The difference between 'noble', 'high' and 'princely' is very subtle, and I suppose also depends on your characterisation of 'prince'. I tend to assume 'princely' is like 'noble' but with a greater element of generosity to it. But I'm sure there are people who would put a more 'proud and jealous' spin on it.

I can see Finrod running over snow or dancing on it, but I wonder if he would have been more sympathetic to the rest of the party. He seems like he might be, in the Athrabeth.

Legolas's words 'I go to find the Sun!' come across to me as perhaps a little lacking in sympathy for his poor shivering companions who can't do the same!

Date: 2017-10-28 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] r-blackcat.livejournal.com
Yeah, the difference between "what a prince would do" and "what a prince should do". The words of Aragorn to Gimly, after the wrestling with Palantir "you forget to whom you speak!" (the only thing I hold against Aragorn) sounds very "kingly" to me - and not very much noble. Oh and I just today was reading "The Fall of Gondolin", where Salgant was described by Tolkien as a "noble Gnome". Well, his deeds were speaking otherwise I think.
Absolutely agree about Finrod.
I didn't take the words of Legolas as un-sympathetic, only light-hearted. But I suppose it could be interpreted this way. If I'm not mistaken, it was Legolas who in the early manuscripts of Tolkien joked "Better a pet dragon than a wild wizard" :)

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